Why Legal Tech is So Important - Maya Markovich - S4E14

This week on the Legally Speaking Podcast, our host Robert Hanna speaks to Maya Markovich.

Maya is the Chief Growth Officer for NextLaw Labs, which is striving to reinvent law with technology.

Part of the Dentons ecosystem, NextLaw invests and partners with legal tech startups to encourage the adoption and development of new workflow solutions in the industry.

It acts as a primary resource for Dentons to explore new legal tech ideas and revenue streams, helping the world's largest law firm stay ahead of its competitors.

Maya previously worked as product marketing manager and as an attorney, having developed her early career in Silicon Valley (after attending Stanford University). She was named one of the five most influential women in legal tech by the ILTA in 2020.

In this episode, topics include:

• Her upbringing and career in Palo Alto, in the heart of Silicon Valley
• How NextLaw is supporting legal technology's adoption and evolution for Dentons and the wider industry
• How the legal tech space has boomed over the last 5 years, and some key contemporary trends in the space
• Why the adoption of legal tech is helping widen access to justice and legal services
• Why you don't need coding (or to be male!) if you want to get involved in the area
• Why legal tech firms, in particular, need to pay close attention to ethics in their code

Out now on the Legally Speaking Podcast website and all major audio platforms! 

Transcript

Rob Hanna (00:00):

Welcome to the Legally Speaking Podcast. I’m your host, Rob Hanna. This week, I’m delighted to be joined by Maya Markovich. Maya is the Head of Growth at Nextlaw Labs, where she delivers next-generation technology process, client and business growth services across the globe for Denton’s ecosystem, including the acceleration of legal tech startups. Maya has previous experience in product marketing and management. She has also been regularly recognized as a leader and legal innovation being named of one of five influential women of legal tech by the ILTA in 2020, and a Woman Leading Legal Tech by the Technologist in 2019. So a very, very warm welcome Maya.

Maya Markovich (00:47):

Hey Rob, thank you so much for having me.

Rob Hanna (00:49):

It’s an absolute pleasure to have you on the show. And before we dive into all your amazing achievements and legal experiences to date, we do have a customary icebreaker question here on the Legally Speaking Podcast, which is on the scale of one to 10, 10 being very real. How real would you rate the reality series Suits in terms of its reality?

Maya Markovich (01:14):

Well, it does get some things, right. You know what I mean? I think some firms have a culture of that kind of office politics, not that kind of firm might want to work for long hours stress on personal lives. Uh, I think that’s, that’s pretty realistic, but I think obviously for the audience, they need to have a lot of variety. So they seem to work on cases all over the map, you know, like M&A and Criminal Defense and Employment. And I think in real life, lawyers have to at least choose a path between Litigation versus Transactional. So I would say on a scale of one to 10, probably a four.

Rob Hanna (01:46):

Yeah. I think that’s a good analogy. And I think it’s great that you’ve, I’ve obviously seen the show and know that because when I tried to explain it to some people, I was like, no, it must be real. I was like, it’s very rare for somebody to have done family to employment, to transactional, to litigation. But anyway, let’s start at the beginning. Tell our listeners a bit about your family background and upbringing.

Maya Markovich (02:08):

I love this question actually, and I’ve been such a fan of listening to other guests responses to this. So I mean, you know, my family background is I grew up in Silicon Valley, actually in a quiet little town called Palo Alto. Um, my parents were in academia. Um, we spent sabbatical years in Paris, uh, with my father’s side of the family. My background is mostly Russian. Uh, both sides were refugees from the 1917 revolution. And so they, they settled in California and Paris respectively. Uh, so I learned Russian and French, uh, and I have a really deep gratitude for the kind of immense strength and resilience, you know, that flows through our veins. Uh, we grew up with a really strong focus on social impact, you know, curiosity, awareness of the wider world education, um, and respect of different perspectives. So meanwhile, we were growing up, the tech industry exploded around us.

Maya Markovich (03:02):

Um, it’s always sort of been there, you know, it was never really foreign or unknown to me as a concept for improving the way that things are done. I went to Stanford for undergrad and master’s in behavioral science, uh, did a semester abroad in Russia and worked for several summers at nonprofits there. At Stanford, I learned the science behind human patterns and drivers really always in the context of this human and societal impact and how to question not only my assumptions, but really everything. So it really inspired me to actively pursue the skill of critical thinking and become a more active version, you know, questioner of the status quo, which is really how all innovation begins. And so then I started my professional career and change management consulting and technology. I was part of a team that conducted on-site, organisational effectiveness analysis, developed targeted plans to support project implementation.

Maya Markovich (03:54):

You know, everything from communications and coaching plans of training, overcoming resistance, all of those are really geared towards maximising employee engagement and driving faster adoption. That was fascinating of course, but you know, something was missing for me. So I struck out on a long trip by myself around the world, um, and spent a lot of time thinking hard about what I wanted to do. And, and it was, you know, something that’s broader social impact. So I went to law school and I practiced for several years. I was inevitably in charge of the technology and I became really intrigued by how, you know, it could improve results for clients and teams, you know, spend more time on strategic and creative tasks. And I really saw it as a challenge to the equitable access to justice. So I eventually made the leap over to the provider side, targeted, you know, various angles of the business and practice of law in product management and product marketing roles.

Maya Markovich (04:47):

During this time, I also became a mother, um, a role which really made me a more successful professional, uh, you know, more resilient, efficient, patient, motivated. There’s a lot of research to back that up. Um, and then Nextlaw Labs found me, uh, you know, just as it was getting off the ground. And I immediately recognised this opportunity to bring together, you know, all these threads of my experience in a totally groundbreaking way. And nowadays, you know, in addition to the big law focus of legal innovation, I’m also really deeply invested in the future of the legal industry, legal education, increased inclusion in the industry and how tech can really positively impact access to justice. I spent a lot of time mentoring early career professionals, social impact, legal tech startups, and serving on the boards of a few organisations that support equitable delivery of legal services.

Rob Hanna (05:36):

Yeah. And you’re doing so much phenomenal work you’re light years ahead of so many in the profession, which definitely makes you stand out for all the great work that you’re doing. So I just want to unpack a lot of that because there’s quite a lot in there. So you mentioned before working as you are today, Chief Growth Officer at Nextlaw Labs, you worked in product marketing. Um, I think Mark Monitor. So just tell us more, what was that like?

New Speaker (05:58):

Well it’s interesting because I started, once I went over to the vendor side and the provider side, I actually worked as a product manager was my first role. And, um, I was the only non-engineer on the team and I was brought in, um, to kind of represent the user perspective, um, which, you know, at the time was uncommon to say the least. And as part of that role, um, it actually is before that, this is when I was working at summation because I was the, you know, the lawyer, the, the fuzzy versus the techie. You know, I did a lot of the kind of translation of these deep technical concepts into understandable language. And so that kind of led me naturally to focus more on the product marketing side of things, of the product manager role. And then I just realised that I could do a lot more there and I wasn’t going to advance all that much in product management, beyond, you know, a director of product management, because I didn’t have a tech background, especially here in Silicon Valley. So, uh, and I found that kind of, um, client interaction also very critical and having the role of kind of making sure that that voice is continually represented and, uh, you know, was, was something that kind of came naturally to me. And I really liked it.

Rob Hanna (07:12):

Yeah, absolutely. And as I say, I think you are doing a great role that you’re currently involved with, but I want to talk a little bit about what exactly Nextlaw Labs is. So for those that might be new to the organisation, tell us about it.

Maya Markovich (07:26):

Sure, So Nextlaw Labs was founded back in 2015. It was the first initiative of its kind, nothing like this existed in the legal industry prior to this. And our mandate is to, you know, it’s broadly to change the business and practice of law via technology. So I get to work on an incredibly wide variety of, you know, high-impact internal and external facing projects. You know, our aim is to curate pilot and adapt legal tech and processes to address the challenges in this business or practice of law, both internal at the firm and client needs. So we take a very user centric, practical approach, and we try to focus on providing these cost-effective solutions that can show real time value that, that we can measure.

Rob Hanna (08:10):

Yeah. And I just think it’s incredible because it’s definitely a continuous improvement organisation and I love all the innovative things that you are doing. So yeah, I’m, I’m thoroughly enjoying watching the journey. So for you going back to you, you moved to Nextlaw Labs then in 2016, I believe you touched on it a bit earlier, but just want to dig a bit deeper. So how and why did you decide to make that transition?

Maya Markovich (08:33):

Well for one thing, a recruiter reached out to me and was explaining it to me. And to be honest with you, I’d just never heard anything of the sort, you know, nothing like this existed and really the words legal innovation or innovation connected with the legal industry had, I had never heard those two words in the same sentence. It made perfect sense to me because finally, all of things that I had been focusing on up until that point seemed to come together, you know, like I said, in this very groundbreaking way, and it was a relief honestly, to see that there was someone else out there who wasn’t shocked when I tried to explain that, you know, I never left using psychology. When I decided to pivot from doing that too, to go into law school, the two paths are not divergent. In fact, they are absolutely complimentary.

Maya Markovich (09:24):

And you know, a lot of that is at the time was, I mean, one of my very first questions was how were you going to get lawyers to participate and, you know, and they were, well, you know, we’ve got, you know, these ideas for these incentive programs. And, you know, we want to kind of tap into this breaking wave of legal technology that’s happening, which at the time was, you know, there were 75 self-described legal tech startups out there five years ago, you know, and now there’s close to 2000, depending on who’s counting. It was just a moment, you know, a moment in time that I am really glad that I took the leap because to be honest with you, I was thinking I would just take another job that was similar to kind of the product marketing roles in a field that I kind of understood. Um, and this was just, you know, this is, it’s an awesome job.

Rob Hanna (10:10):

Yeah, yeah. It’s a cool job. I agree with you. I agree with you. So let’s, let’s talk about competition and, and difference because you know, Nextlaw Labs, you know, was definitely, it’s definitely a leading legal technology, innovation catalyst, but it’s a very crowded markets place when you say legal tech. So just tell us more about this and perhaps what you think makes the company so different.

Maya Markovich (10:32):

I mean of course there are many things, and to be honest with you in the last five years, you know, the traction that we’ve seen, these concepts and these types of organisations and departments take hold is a wonderful sign. I mean, we think that a rising tide truly lifts all boats and the more people are focused on this and focused on incorporating it into client service delivery the better honestly. And so it’s really great to see kind of the pivot more and more to client-centered service delivery. I think there are a couple of things. So first of all, we have a Nextlaw Ventures, which is our Nextlaw Labs investment arm, which was also founded simultaneously in the early years in 2015. And the way that we did that was we, we started out by pulling as many people as we could about, you know, internally and externally within the Dems ecosystem about the challenges that they were facing.

Maya Markovich (11:22):

So we started with a list of a prioritised list of challenges, and then we went out and tried to figure out how we would solve them, you know, be it developing something internally, partnering with the client to develop, uh, something or investing in an early stage legal tech startup, which pretty much everything was legal state. It was early stage back then. And so we developed this portfolio. And so I spent a lot of time accelerating these companies. We don’t have like cohorts that come through or anything like that we have once we’re, um, invested or in many cases, also we partner with legal tech companies that we have not invested in, but there are some mutually beneficial relationship and arrangement that we can come up with. And so we, we have equity in some and not in others, but we work with them to accelerate the innovation that they represent, uh, within the firm.

Maya Markovich (12:12):

The other thing is, I think Devin’s innovation drive is so strong that it’s probably harder for us to keep up with demand, you know, and connect the dots on innovation happening across 200 offices, you know, worldwide, it’s like 12,000 attorneys now, you know, than it is for us to convince attorneys that it’s kind of a necessary evolution. Um, and so I spend, you know, I spend many of my days kind of with change management, you know, I draw on that experience to maximise engagement and overcome resistance. I could be vetting potential startups. I could be accelerating them. I could be working with attorneys to explore those new solutions and consulting with clients on their legal workflow challenges, and also engaging in strategic planning with global practice leaders to kind of define and execute their practice innovation strategy. So our remit is very broad. It’s hard to say if everyone else’s remit is also broad, but because we sit at the global level, we’re able to help, uh, you know, touch and support and work and collaborate with, uh, all of the different regions, um, in different ways.

Rob Hanna (13:14):

Yeah. And as I say, I just loved the connectivity of the, uh, the organisation as well. Um, and you touch on it there a lot around innovation because Nextlaw’s slogan is our innovation knows no bounds, which I just love. So just tell us more about that, that, that sort of slogan and how that sort of lived and breathed day-to-day.

Maya Markovich (13:34):

Indeed, I mean as I described, our remit is incredibly broad and I am incredibly grateful for that because along with that comes a lot of autonomy and responsibility of course, but, um, you know, I’m encouraged to pursue the things that make me curious, ponder these big questions, imagine ways, you know, to have measurable impact. And I ask a lot of questions like, you know, what would happen if we changed this? You know, can we reframe that constraint as an opportunity? How has the client view this situation? How do we articulate the goal of this project? You know? And so in that way, uh, bringing innovation to the legal industry for us is as broad as almost as we can imagine it. And of course we have to just from there, we just have to prioritise where we, you know, where we worry, put our resources.

Rob Hanna (14:19):

Yeah, well said, and I think you definitely have one of those cool jobs within the legal space. So I guess it’d be great to know, you know, the day in the life of a Chief Growth Officer, I know you’ve touched on various points, but what does a typical day in layman’s terms look like for you?

Maya Markovich (14:35):

I mean again it’s all over the map, honestly, you know, we, uh, I, like I said, I spend a lot of time. No two days are the same, you know, um, I spend a lot of time with clients helping them hand in hand with our next lot in-house solutions, a sister company, and a lot of those conversations revolved, not around tech at all, but around articulating those challenges, helping, um, internal stakeholders at Dentons, understand where the clients are so that we can meet them where they are and have this kind of holistic approach to client service, understanding their challenges deeply and what the kind of pressures that they’re under internally, of course, you know, like I, I spend a lot of time, uh, working on, um, just providing visibility into the work that’s being done across the regions and how other regions who are interested in doing similar projects can scale them up to the global level or at least the cross regional level.

Maya Markovich (15:31):

So we work a lot on transparency and, um, and in kind of the awareness building as legal innovation develops, and we move further through the disruptive cycle within our industry. We’re just, we’re doing a lot more of that higher level work within the firm. Uh, you know, our team collaborated with colleagues across the globe to create an innovation hub, you know, which is a communications channel, which is designed to increase awareness, promote adoption of all these innovative solutions that are being used and worked on and developed by Dentons lawyers and professionals. Obviously the users are particularly interested in the value that’s created when these solutions are adopted plus exploring innovation activity and how to talk to clients about innovation and market intelligence and that kind of thing. And that’s particularly crucial, I think in our variety structure where regions operate autonomously with all the great innovative work that’s being done.

Maya Markovich (16:21):

And we’re also doing global training on innovation on another kind of branch of this, um, with the Dentons Global Next Talent Initiative, which is focused on providing these critical tools and resources for Denton’s professionals to really unlock innovation in their day to day activities, you know, boost efficiencies and effectiveness. And again, always be focused on delivering new value for clients because that’s the key differentiator just providing excellent legal advice is table stakes. Everyone, the clients expect that now, but, um, finding these new ways to, to support clients where they are now and where they will be, uh, next year in the future is really our goal.

Rob Hanna (16:58):

Yeah. And you’re just great at identifying the pain points, you know, and then providing those valuable solutions. So yeah, I just love everything that you’re doing. And what I also love about you as well is that you give back, right. And you also serve on boards that you lightly touched on earlier. So from Lex Lab, One justice, I think Legal Access Alameda as well, and as a mentor to Legal Geeks Women in Tech, in Law Tech. So just tell us more about some of these roles.

Maya Markovich (17:26):

I feel that at this moment in my career, I have somehow stumbled upon having a bit of a, you know, a, a bully pulpit. And I, you know, people tend to ask me what I think about things. And I think it’s incredibly important to remind people at all times, you know, where we are in the legal industry, how incredibly fortunate we are to work in an industry, which is flourishing right now and at the same time is leaving a huge number of people on earth behind. And so, you know, the vast majority of people who need access to legal services can’t afford them, can’t access them. Um, and so I try to focus as much as I can on leveraging what I, what I’ve got to kind of support those efforts in every way possible. I wish I could do it all the time. I wish I had, you know, 48 hours in a day.

Maya Markovich (18:16):

And the other thing I think is really important is, you know, within the legal industry to think about the ways that we need to be supporting the future generations of who we want to continue the legal industry itself. And so, you know, I think right now we’re not doing a good job as an industry or in legal education. We’re not preparing students for what they need to know the skills that they’re going to need to excel. And at the same time, you know, all of these pressures are converging because the work I think is actually increasing. I don’t think, you know, things are going to go away with the robots. I think that, you know, there’s increasing regulatory issues that there are cybersecurity issues. There’s, you know, privacy issues, more and more things that are highly regulated are going to need more lawyers to do these things, but do them in a different way.

Maya Markovich (19:02):

And, you know, the whole point behind why Nextlaw Labs was founded was that the legal industry just hasn’t benefited from technology in the way that most other industries have. And technology is, is kind of a buzzword. Often it isn’t technology at all. It is just putting on a different lens and thinking about, you know, thinking about why people make decisions, um, and, and things as basic as that. And I’m just I’m. So I feel so lucky that these things that are inherently so fascinating to me are actually what I’m supposed to be doing all day

Rob Hanna (19:36):

Landing on the dream job there. Okay. I know you talked to lot about sort of inclusion and helping people. You know, what advice would you give to other women who perhaps want to get involved in legal tech?

Maya Markovich (19:48):

Well uh, for one thing I would, I would suggest taking every opportunity that is presented to you. I think it’s really important to realise that it’s commonly out there. I see it on LinkedIn, occasionally revisited, and that is that, um, women don’t apply for jobs unless they think they hit like a hundred percent of, of the, um, requirements. Whereas men will typically apply for a job that they think they have 60% of the requirements for. And I think you can kind of extrapolate that even more broadly take off of these, every opportunity that’s offered, even if you think you’re not quite ready for it and doing things for the first time is, is challenging, but it really leads to professional growth, you know, more, you know, emotional intelligence and, and it can be kind of addictive more and more of the non-lawyers are coming into this industry, which I think is a blessing.

Maya Markovich (20:36):

We need more people from other industries coming in. Um, but I think, you know, people often leave the practice of law for negative reasons, burnout and constraints and hierarchy just for another career, just because it’s different from their current situation without really giving much thought to leveraging the valuable experience that they’ve gained from being a lawyer. And especially in the last year, I’ve seen, um, just an influx of women that are in this very exact situation because of the pandemic, I think has just exacerbated all of that. So I always recommend, instead of this escape approach to really consider the positive aspects of your legal career, what drew you to it in the first place, parsing those out and thinking creatively about how they may be applied differently in another sphere, you know, we excel at critical thinking, communication problem solving, persevering, even if it’s an ambiguous situation or there’s a setback and thinking about what parts you liked best and going in that direction, applying those well-honed skills differently, and also engaging them to evaluate your options right. Sort through them and pursue a path that is, you know, personally and professionally rewarding. Easier said than done, but you know, it’s a process

Rob Hanna (21:51):

And it’s definitely a process, but you’ve just got to keep going. Okay. I liked the fact that you’ve talked a lot around sort of inspiring and nurturing the next generation of legal professionals as well. So do you think that future lawyers will need to be legal techies?

Maya Markovich (22:08):

Yeah. I love this question because no people do not need to be coding in my opinion, I’m on that side of the, of the fence on that one, you know, I mean, you know, to thrive in the legal industry of the future, which is now the present, really lawyers need some foundational literacies, right? Like a basic understanding of data science and what you can do with data, um, money management, you know, design thinking, project management. They also, I think, need to develop competency in flexibility, creativity, collaboration, emotional intelligence, which by the way, you don’t, you don’t necessarily have to be born with those things are learnable. And, and I think in order to truly affect change, um, lawyers with character qualities of resilience and creativity, you know, that comfort with ambiguity and a bias to action, um, and comfort with trial and error are really going to have the most impact. So that’s not necessarily being a techie, but you know, some understanding of what it takes to actually build tech. Sure. But not building it, you know, unless you’re in a hybrid role where you’re building these tools to streamline workflow for, you know, those that are billing the hours.

Rob Hanna (23:13):

Yeah. No, I think that’s a good and important point to, to stress. Um, because I think a lot of people get confused about what they may or may not need to do. Okay. So just a couple of final questions before we wrap up, and these are quite ambigious questions, but what do you predict to be the biggest changes in the legal profession say over the next five years or so and why?

Maya Markovich (23:35):

Um, I love this because in five years someone’s going to, you know, revisit this and be like, ah, she goes wrong on everything. I mean, here’s the thing right? Where we’re trying to take the industry. I will caveat what I’m about to say by saying that where we’re trying to take the industry. There is no roadmap, right? We’re all just sitting around trying to intuit these trends and directions and kind of forcefully move forward in some unknown, you know, to an unknown destination. We know there are so many things that need to be changed. Um, and at the same, any time that there’s such an opportunity right now to do it, you know, do it right. I think, you know, in general, a continuation of trends around technology, a business-minded practice reaction to these changing dynamics of competition continued increased focus on the client experience. Client expectations are continually increasing.

Maya Markovich (24:26):

There’s going to be more and more emphasis on the value based services and different kinds of pricing models. So law firms really have to respond by boosting client service, you know, and the service experience, better transparency, more collaboration tools, lots of value added services internally, you know, in, in legal departments and firms and everywhere. I think there’s going to be this obviously increased mainstreaming of tech into the day to day, right? So all of the sort of turn the crank work, I think will be kind of morphing, um, dramatically automation of documents, diligence, mitigating risk, increasing efficiency. And I think there’ll also be more desegregation of legal work, uh, to, to lower cost platforms. I think one other thing that I think is I’m starting to see quite a bit of, uh, you know, more and more signs of this is the fact that we have a moment in time here where most legal tech companies are still young and more being founded all the time, which is incredibly necessary and normal in this disruptive cycle.

Maya Markovich (25:29):

The key is right now that there is a good opportunity and I’m seeing us moving towards this opportunity, which really makes me incredibly happy and hopeful that we’re having discussions early on with legal tech providers as to the, the DEI, the equity in, and the equity out kind of principles that they as providers bring to the table because law firms are under pressure themselves from clients to show that increasingly that their supply chain and the people that they’re working with externally themselves to provide client services are also hewing to these goals and aspirations of increased equity. I am also seeing more questions being asked around the tech stacks of, of legal tech companies. And are they being developed in a way such that, you know, there are checks and balances around, um, coding in bias to those tools because especially in the legal industry, you know, you’re not just doing something for directly for a particular department in a company.

Maya Markovich (26:31):

Law is as, um, the wonderful professor Cat Moon always says is the OS of human society. And so our obligations are higher, and I think, um, and other industries that have gone through these kind of disruptive cycles with technology. You didn’t focus on that. And I think right now we’re having these discussions simultaneously with increasing efficiency, uh, with, you know, with the multi-billion dollar transactional platform at the same time as technology that increases equity, you know, directly for self-represented litigants against all, you know, the whole spectrum there and in between, how do we really focus on making sure that these technologies that we’re using are not reinforcing bias and inequity? And so the fact that I’m seeing more and more investors asking these questions, as well as customers, and, you know, I think it’s more and more we’re going to hopefully be going in that direction. And I think we are.

Rob Hanna (27:31):

Yeah. And it’s going to be super, super exciting and there’s some real nuggets there. And I look forward to seeing how they all arise. I’m seeing a lot of particularly touched on a bit before, around the subscription side, I’m seeing a lot of law firms looking at those subscription models for services, particularly in the US at the moment. So, okay. My final question is you’ve achieved so much. You’ve got a super inspiring legal background. What are some of your future plans and future goals? How do you keep yourself motivated?

Maya Markovich (27:58):

Well, I have an incredible team. Everybody that I work with on the global innovation team at Dentons is an eight, you know, is a star player. So we are an A team that I truly enjoy working with. Um, you know, and, and we bring such complimentary experiences and, um, expertise to the table that it’s hard to imagine a better kind of work situation. I keep myself motivated by continually trying to find ways that I can leverage things that I’m learning on the job to effectively influence the positive, um, trajectory of the legal industry. Sometimes I get, you know, almost overwhelmed by my desire to just make real positive change, something that, you know, and where can I find the most traction? So I’m on the search, um, for those always, but, um, you know, the other thing that I have learned is that I have to be comfortable with never knowing everything, cause there’s just no way to keep track of everything that’s going on.

Maya Markovich (28:54):

Even in, you know, even just trying to stay on top of the legal tech landscape is just an impossible task. So I just, uh, take what I can from where I go. But, you know, I see myself doing more and more hopefully with, with, you know, my extra two arms, um, and extra 10, 12 hours in the day, you know, doing as much as I can leveraging these kind of skills and experience towards an overall improvement in the industry, be it in legal education, access to justice, you know, the, the technology equity and, uh, legal tech non-profits are incredibly intriguing to me. And I think that’s a model that we need to explore more.

Rob Hanna (29:35):

Yeah, no, and that’s a great way for us to, to conclude, because I think there’s so much more out there to be solved in the legal industry. And I’m just loving the whole legal innovation, continuous improvement, ethos, and everything that you’re doing. So if people want to get in touch about anything that’s been discussed today, what’s the best email or social media handles for them to get in touch with you, Maya, you want to give any shout-outs and we’ll make sure we share them with this episode for you too.

Maya Markovich (30:02):

Sure, sure. Yeah, no, absolutely. I try as hard as I can to answer everybody, um, because the conversations and the outreach that I get are beneficial for me as well. So I, I love it when people reach out to tell me that they disagreed with something I said, or, you know, that made them think about something or just learning about, you know, what’s happening in, in a different corner of the industry. So please, please, please do reach out. And, you know, the best way to find me is probably on LinkedIn at Markovich Maya. Um, also we have a Nextlaw Labs website and blog where we try to keep up with all of our activities. And so if anyone wants to kind of dive into different types of discussions that we’ve had, or different panels or different, um, you know, topics that’s there as well. But, um, I would say, just reach out to me personally.

Rob Hanna (30:49):

Yeah. I love that. And I just love how inclusive and responsive you are to your community. So that just leads me to say, thanks an absolute million Maya for coming onto the show. It’s been a real pleasure having you learning more about Nextlaw Labs, all your exciting ventures, what you’ve been up to and what’s going on in the future. So from all of us on the Legally Speaking Podcast, like wish you lots of continued success with the company, but now over and out, this week’s review comes from Josh991155. Josh says, great podcasts. This is a really informative and enjoyable to listen to show. I strongly recommend for anyone going into the legal profession. Thank you so so much, Josh. We really appreciate your kind words and support. It means the world to all of us here on the Legally Speaking Podcast.

Rob Hanna (31:38):

Thank you for listening to this episode of the Legally Speaking Podcast. If you enjoyed the show and want to help support us, remember to leave us a rating and review on Apple iTunes, you can also support the show and gain exclusive benefits, bonus content, and much more by signing up to our Patreon page, which is www.patreon.com/legallyspeakingpodcast. Thanks for listening.